Saturday, December 15, 2007

Interesting Qi Gong Discussion 2

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:24:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "KianTee Lim" Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: [zhineng_qigong] Re: Lower Dantian
To: zhineng_qigong@yahoogroups.com

Thank you for your in depth response. I have always felt that I need to learn Mandarin in order to read the ZQ and other qi gong materials which are mostly written in Mandarin. That is why I have made a decision to take up Mandarin lessons since November this year .

I accept that my mail could have for some reasons not reached there. These things do happen and I am glad that Deqi forwarded it to the forum. Thank you very much Deqi .

I am not qualified to respond to what you have written but I am thankful for your in-depth explanation. I do mind cultivation in my practice and would like to share this meditation from "365 Tao" with everyone here:

This one is titled: "Beginning."

This is the moment of embarking.
All auspicious signs are in place.

In the beginning all things are hopeful. We prepare ourselves to start anew. Though we may be intent on the magnificent journey ahead, all things are contained in this first moment: our optimism, our faith, our resolution, our innocence.

In order to start we must make a decision. This is a decision to daily self cultivation. We must make a strong connection with our inner selves. Outside matters are superfluous. Alone and naked, we negotiate all of life's travails. Therefore, we alone must make something of ourselves, transforming ourselves into instruments for experiencing the deepest spiritual essence of life.

Once we make our decision, all things will come to us. Auspicious signs are not superstition, but a confirmation. They are a response. It is said that if one chooses to pray to a rock with enough devotion, even that rock will come alive. In the same way, once we choose to commit ourselves a spiritual practice, even the mountains and valleys will reverberate to the sound of our purpose.

HUN YUAN LING TONG!
Kian Tee




Ooi Kean wrote:

Thank u very much, Deqi.
............ .
December 12, 2007
I posted a message to the zhineng qigong group run by Ooi Kean Hin but I guess he found it inappropriate to publish it in his site. Therefore I will publish it here for it concerns Mr. Ooi's view on the ZBE/THCMM. Here it is:

This is an open forum. Anyone can sign in as a member and post any message here without my permission. That’s why sometimes we get some spam like bikegal etc which I would delete soonest possible but always too late. I don’t know why Kian Tee’s mail did not reach here. I did not stop it and I don’t have to do that.

Quote:
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:12:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "KianTee Lim" Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: [zhineng_qigong] Lower Dantian
To: zhineng_qigong@ yahoogroups. com
Hi,
Hello Kian Tee,
I find this discussion most interesting. I am a serious practitioner of ZQ as well as Msater Liu's ZBE/THCMM and therefore I would like to share my experience with everyone.

1. "However the middle channel as introduced by Mr Liu is a mentally created tube of qi." - This is not correct. The practice of ZBE/THCMM does NOT employ any mental visualization. The practitioner merely carries out the gong as prescribed by Master Liu. In other words... "Just Do It."

I did not say it clearly in the earlier mails. The message of Liu’s middle channel is within his teaching, meaning within him, he has the image, the tube within him.. And he has mentioned openly that his breathing exercise would open up your dantians and middle channel
A teacher once told me that he was taking a class in practising 3cm while he was hungry. At the end of the class he realised half the class have hunger pangs with them during the practice. In a qi-field the message of the teacher counts the most.
Have u heard of Zhen Qi Yun Xing Fa? In this once popular practice the teacher just tell u to relax and focus lightly onto the lower dantian (theirs is lower than navel). Subsequently the class will feel warmth building up in the lower dantian and then the warmth (qi) would move up the spine and go into Du-Ren channels circulation. Teacher mentioned that during practice, qi will flow in Ren-Du channel before the class, he did not say anything about this during the practice but almost all the students felt it that way – that’s the power of qi-field, the effect of the teachers’ message. Like wise if I give an order now – that your left hand is getting longer – measure it now and see whether it is getting longer ------- the effect of message again.
What did Dr Pang say about middle channel, or ZQ’ middle channel?
Extract of his speech in 28 July 1998: Researching into ZQ Science through recognising true-self (ZiWo)
…the key to our practice is mental cultivation and to recognize trueself.
Many in the society are now working on opening hunyuan palace, teaching middle channel. Saying that they could make 40-60% people to open up hunyuan palace, can make 30% people build up middle channel. This is cheating. Because to open up hunyuan palace qi of central nervous system has to be inside hunyuan palace, it is a phenomenon of mind inside qi. If (one) doesn’t correct the wrongly biased mind (thinking, ideas), practice (forms) alone definitely would not get the real experience of opening hunyuan palace or middle channel.
To practice middle channel, the most important thing is mental cultivation.
In his lecture on mental/moral cultivation Dr Pang also mentioned about the state or requirement before hunyuan palace will be able to open – be a natural. And at the stage of reaching 3 stops (pulse, breath and mind).
In ZQ Science Magazine May 1999 issue, page 4, “A Record of the Conversation between Pang Laoshi and Teacher Training Class”
…to practice middle channel the key is to cultivate your mind. Without a reasonably good mental cultivation, it is absolutely impossible to practice middle channel, how ever hard you try, what u get will be the fake one, not the ZQ one. You have a qi tube inside your body, qi going up, that’s a creation of your mind, not the real middle channel. Until your mental cultivation is really good, the true nature of qi of central nervous system is revealed, only then you could open hunyuan palace(and get into middle channel practice).
In his reply to a student who reached ‘shadow’ of ZQ middle channel (published in ZQ Science Magazine December 1997 issue, page 12), his lecture on Straight Leg Method and many where else Dr Pang openly mentioned that the middle channel in ZQ consists of 5 lines (4 limbs and body) and it would only be there after the opening of hunyuan palace. He further pointed out that our middle channel is not the same as the traditional daoist or tibetan forms, which mainly consist of a qi column from baihui to huiyin, completely different. Theirs is a creation of mind (message passed down from generation to generation) but not the one in ZQ. I’m not saying Mr Liu’s middle channel is not middle channel, just like I’m not saying that the middle channel in some daoist and tibetan forms are not middle channel. I’m just stressing that that is not ZQ’s middle channel as explained by Dr Pang.
In the book 'Answers from Pang Laoshi' and many times during lecture, Dr Pang ask us to observe and not to grasp, even when u see a qi column within your body. If u hold onto that, thinking that's high class, then u get stuck there.
2. A crucial (and perhaps, more controversial) element in the practice of ZBE/THCMM is the "Tao Field". "Qi Field" as I understand contains only information whereas the "Tao Field" has the added dimension of "Power". The power said to be added into the qi field and hence the term, "Tao Field". While one may ague whether Master Liu indeed has the ability to add the dimension of "Power" to the "qi field"; it cannot be denied that power can be added to an energy field. For instance, "Mantras" or "Words of Power" can be created by an enlightened master. How an enlightened attaches power to words (to produce mantras) is by writing these words when he has an "utterly void mind".
Qi field created by a high level teacher is of course different stronger than the work of an ordinary teacher. Just listen to one of the lecture of Dr Pang (particularly those in the early 90s where he talks about practice) and we would feel it – u don’t even have to understand what he is saying. Mr Liu has reached a certain level of practice and of course his qi field is different then ordinary teacher. Well, ever since the invention of qi field formation by Dr Pang there are many who have given special names to it. Ying-Yang Field, BaGua field, even one Great Universe Violet Field (and students see violet light during practice...) ….. another new name doesn’t come as a surprise.


3. Finally, just to share my own experience. I have definitely benefited from the ZBE and THCMM gongs having faithfully practiced it initially as a supplement to ZQ and finally making it a main daily "gong" for a total of something like seven months now. By practicing ZBE/THCMM on for my own daily practice (about 1 to 2 hours a day) and ZQ together with my ZQ group for two days a week... I find that I have certainly made a huge improvement in my LCUPCD and XSZ. I have also found my third level practice (Wu Yuan Zhuang) greatly enhanced as a result of ZBE/THCMM but I had to put my "Wu Yuan Zhuang" on hold for the moment as I had experienced tremendous emotional reactions.

I’m not against the so-called ZBE nor any breathing exercises. Not even in my message to Jane. Like I said ZBE is almost identical to the breathing exercise as introduced by Dr Pang in page 322 of Essence of Qigong (JinYi) as a supplementary exercise. In that book Dr Pang has introduced more than 20 breathing exercises. Interestingly he mentioned candidly in one of his lectures that “pick one of those and introduce as your creation and u will be a grandmaster.”
Your case is different then my friend who has dropped the dynamic exercises completely, and of course u progress well. My friend just focused onto ZBE alone – as prescribed by Liu earlier. However how would it be if u were to focus onto 3cm or straight leg correctly for say 1-2 hours a day?
Liu has given some good lectures on mental cultivation but a lot of his actions are really disappointing. When Liu first introduced his ZBE he even teased that many practitioners could not leave the 3 old practice (Level 1,2, 3) and he likened that to the refusal to throw away old, torn pillow. He has made too many unpleasant remarks on Dr Pang’s work. Go to his Chinese forum or some Chinese ZQ forum, u would be able to find some of his comments there…..

4. I am sure it is not mental creation... Certainly... , during the online group practice, especially in the early stages of starting ZBE/THCMM, I had experienced strong "energy field" during group practice.

Well, u have the freedom to choose what u want to believe, enjoy your practice then, but I maintain that this is not ZQ anymore.

5. In conclusion, I personally recommend keeping an open mind. Remember: "An open mind is able to embrace all possibilities. " It is important in our mind cultivation (a very important aspect of ZQ practice), that we do not falsely believe that only our practice is superior to all others and thus close our mind from everything else. More importantly, we should not "scorn others" for to do so can only indicate that we are too proud of ourselves and think ourselves as superior to others. To prevent ourselves from falling into this false believe, I would like to quote an excerpt from the daily meditations: "365 Tao" by Deng Ming Dao which goes like this:

Quote:
The journey of humanity is the journey from ignorance to enlightenment. It's like an endless march of souls through eternity. If you are standing in an infinitely long line of souls, how can you say that your position is superior to others? When there is no head and no end to the line, it doesn't matter what place you hold. Therefore it is foolish to look down on those standing behind. They now occupy the place where you once stood. Instead of pride, you should feel compassion. If you cannot remember this, just think of all the people ahead of you. You aspire to their place, and you should work diligently.
Unquote.

Yes, I will keep my mind open while still wondering how your mail could not reach this forum…. Mind if u checked your outbox or test it out again?

"Hun yuan ling tong!"
& Good luck.
Kean Hin

Deborah Hans wrote:

Saw this on other website.... What have u got to say, my friend.

Deqi

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