I find this discussion most interesting. I am a serious practitioner of ZQ as well as Msater Liu's ZBE/THCMM and therefore I would like to share my experience with everyone.
1. "However the middle channel as introduced by Mr Liu is a mentally created tube of qi." - This is not correct. The practice of ZBE/THCMM does NOT employ any mental visualization. The practitioner merely carries out the gong as prescribed by Master Liu. In other words... "Just Do It."
2. A crucial (and perhaps, more controversial) element in the practice of ZBE/THCMM is the "Tao Field". "Qi Field" as I understand contains only information whereas the "Tao Field" has the added dimension of "Power". The power said to be added into the qi field and hence the term, "Tao Field". While one may ague whether Master Liu indeed has the ability to add the dimension of "Power" to the "qi field"; it cannot be denied that power can be added to an energy field. For instance, "Mantras" or "Words of Power" can be created by an enlightened master. How an enlightened attaches power to words (to produce mantras) is by writing these words when he has an "utterly void mind".
3. Finally, just to share my own experience. I have definitely benefited from the ZBE and THCMM gongs having faithfully practiced it initially as a supplement to ZQ and finally making it a main daily "gong" for a total of something like seven months now. By practicing ZBE/THCMM on for my own daily practice (about 1 to 2 hours a day) and ZQ together with my ZQ group for two days a week... I find that I have certainly made a huge improvement in my LCUPCD and XSZ. I have also found my third level practice (Wu Yuan Zhuang) greatly enhanced as a result of ZBE/THCMM but I had to put my "Wu Yuan Zhuang" on hold for the moment as I had experienced tremendous emotional reactions.
4. I am sure it is not mental creation... Certainly..., during the online group practice, especially in the early stages of starting ZBE/THCMM, I had experienced strong "energy field" during group practice.
5. In conclusion, I personally recommend keeping an open mind. Remember: "An open mind is able to embrace all possibilities." It is important in our mind cultivation (a very important aspect of ZQ practice), that we do not falsely believe that only our practice is superior to all others and thus close our mind from everything else. More importantly, we should not "scorn others" for to do so can only indicate that we are too proud of ourselves and think ourselves as superior to others. To prevent ourselves from falling into this false believe, I would like to quote an excerpt from the daily meditations: "365 Tao" by Deng Ming Dao which goes like this:
The journey of humanity is the journey from ignorance to enlightenment. It's like an endless march of souls through eternity. If you are standing in an infinitely long line of souls, how can you say that your position is superior to others? When there is no head and no end to the line, it doesn't matter what place you hold. Therefore it is foolish to look down on those standing behind. They now occupy the place where you once stood. Instead of pride, you should feel compassion. If you cannot remember this, just think of all the people ahead of you. You aspire to their place, and you should work diligently.
"Hun yuan ling tong!"
1. While most forms of qigong have their dantians at a level lower than navel it doesn't mean there is no other forms having it at navel level. "Song of 13-Stance" of Taiji has clearly indicated that at least the original Taiji has the lower dantian at mingmen-navel level. Sadly, many modern taiji practitioners and teachers do not have any idea about this at all.
2. ZQ is a human science. And centre for bodily qi or lower dantian is most natural at mingmen-navel level. So we have it there. Human comes from society and as a human science ZQ does not create anything image inside the body in our practice.
3. Most of the teachings on middle channel (central meridian) and dantians (vital centres) opening of Mr Liu are on mental creations, which is very much away from the teaching of ZQ that is based on natural human study. The middle channel in ZQ will only be there when we reach a level whereby the hunyuan palace is open. The ZQ channel is not the same as in the Daoist or Tibetan Buddhist or other forms whereby they work through a lot of internal visualization (mentally created qi tube). In ZQ this channel could only be achieved through practice and also cultivation of daode (how we function as a human in society - not quite just morality) However the middle channel as introduced by Mr Liu is a mentally created tube of qi.
4. Mr Liu has claimed that he created the breathing exercise and sort of a break-through. He has also claimed that he has further developed ZQ. However similar exercise is found in the ZQ book Essence of Qigong. Even the name breathing exercise "huxicao" was mentioned there.
5. To those who finds Mr Liu's teaching useful, go ahead with it. However bear in mind that that is not pure ZQ anymore. And I strongly suggest those who follow that to compare their progress with correct ZQ exercises. Check your progress on mental and physical health. Because what I have witnessed recently is not encouraging.
6. Mr Liu can teach anything he wants and we could support anybody's teaching that we find interesting. However let ZQ be ZQ. Just hope that Mr Liu will just name whatever his creation in any name other then Zhineng Qigong.
Hun Yuan Ling Tong
__Pang Ming formed in the original Transmission of Zhineng Qigong a special place for the lower dantian no other Qigong is having. So the white spot for the lower dantien has a special location over the navel.This I learned by a transmission cd Jane Xin of Abundant Chiwas using in her currently running group. But Zhineng Qigong has differentiated much and stands, non rarely I think, for other stuff.AxelOn Dec 11, 2007 12:49 AM, Ooi Kean <okhpen@yahoo.
com> wrote:Different forms will have different location of lower dantians. Some martial art forms have 5 lower dantians. In ZQ the centre of our lower dantian is at the level between navel and mingmen. Most other forms are at a lower level.
VIVI JUNAEDI <junaedi@mail.
com> wrote:Anybody can explain where the location of lower dantian according to znqg? Is it behind the navel, or 2inch lower than the navel? I have the impression that it is at the navel level, which is different than other qigongs, yoga, etc. The books on zhineng never show where lower dantian is, is it possible that the authors are also confused?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.